American fund raisers have much to learn from overseas charities, say Andrew Watt and Jon Duschinsky, who travel extensively to advise charities outside the United States.

In an audio interview with The Chronicle, Mr. Watt, chief programs officer at the Association of Fundraising Professionals, described his activities over the past three years to organize chapters overseas and to provide resources to fund raisers in many countries.

Both Mr. Watt and Mr. Duschinsky, a consultant, said donors are increasingly interested in solving problems rather than donating money to causes. Fund raisers, the two men said, must seek ways to help donors do that rather than just ask for money. Fund raisers, they said, too often think only about the amount of money raised, not about creating movements for change that inspire donors to join in hands-on involvement.

“We need to move away from talking about our organizations’ being the best and give people the tools to self-organize,” said Mr. Duschinsky. He added that he no longer looks to the United States or Britain for the best, most inspiring examples of fund raising.

Fund raisers in the United States need to adopt new approaches when starting fund-raising efforts, he said. “The donor pyramid is dead.”

Instead he urged fund raisers to think about a “change cylinder,” in which donors come together as equal participants who give money, time, and other resources to a project, then move on to other accomplishments, perhaps to come together again later.

“The donor pyramid is measuring money,” Mr. Duschinsky said. “If we now agree that effecting change is about so much else, to say that the only thing that will change the world is money misses the point.”

You can listen here to Mr. Duschinsky’s example of what he means when he says that charities need to learn to think differently:”