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[Puzzled]

Seeking opinions from inside and outside the nonprofit world:

Could one of the reasons nonprofit groups are hesitant to hire advanced-degreed, technically savvy, successful people from the private sector be that they feel insecure or inferior to them?  

And to compensate for this insecurity, do they frown on or ridicule business people for their focus on making money?

And do they do this even though the profits generated by these businesses are precisely what nonprofit organizations owe their existence to?

Is there a way out of this convoluted thinking?

[see another ...]

Oops! Read answer to Jennifer Berkshire's question about age discrimination? Funny coincidence or what?

[Julie]

No I don't think that is the problem at all. I am a recruiter and I do not like hiring advanced-level people from for-profit companies because nonprofit organizations are a different world. The environment is very different. The people are very different. The salary is very different.

Once you have been in the for-profit world for more than five years, it is very hard to change everything you know about the working world, and that is what you need to do in the nonprofit world. I worked in human resources in a for-profit company for one year and it took me two years to really fit in with the staff here and understand why they do what they do.

People who work in nonprofit organizations run only on passion.  They take their passion and use it in all aspects of their work and life. They do not think or act like a person from a for- profit company and the transition is so difficult for them they tend to either be very frustrated for the first couple years or leave very quickly. I would much rather higher someone from the nonprofit world who already knows what it is like to work in a nonprofit organization.

[Geri Thomas]

We work in the museum and cultural industry, having worked in and for museums for many, many years. The measure of success in the for-profit sector is, well, profit. The measure of success in the nonprofit world is much more elusive and the key is the commitment to public service, something that may not be understood from someone coming from profit-making businesses.

In our consulting work, we find a growing rift between those who know the nonprofit industry and those who enter it, for whatever reason, from the private sector, a sort of clash of cultures if you will.  

Just like professionals in other industries, there is now a strong, professional community that is educated, experienced and proficient in all aspects of running a cultural organization or other nonprofit -- in programs, in development, in marketing, in finance, etc.  The nonprofit community must support this workforce,  hire people with nonprofit experience, and provide for succession planning.  

Jealousy is not the issue.  Cheers!

[Goldie]

Externally, turfism is a plague that flows through the sector.  Unfortunately it starts internally at the management level (executive director).  Having worked in the nonprofit sector for 25 years, I have seen and known of agencies and organizations not hiring the most qualified person because they want to "control" their staff. Many directors want submissive people under them. Sad but true.  

Every time I read turnover and directors state it is a "money issue" that they "can't retain qualified" individuals because they can't pay them," I pause over that "excuse" statement. I truly believe that many directors are either intimidated or feel that their positions are threatened when someone has more experience or education than they do. Age discrimination also goes to the experience issue. It goes without saying that they are many people in the sector that do not place the "best interest" of their agency or organization first!

[Lisa A.]

As a person who successfully transitioned from for-profit to nonprofit three years ago, I agree that the cultures are different, but I disagree with the fact that a person who works in the for-profit industry cannot have the same type of passion that a nonprofit employee has.

Many corporate employees take time out of their schedules to volunteer their time after work or on the weekends for a cause that has affected them in some way. I don't see why that person wouldn't show the same level of commitment after they begin getting a paycheck.  My move to nonprofit work has been a refreshing experience because I am around people who are committed to the specific cause for which they are working. I am glad I wasn't discrimited against and someone gave me the opportunity to do so and didn't eliminate me solely on the fact that I have an MBA and more than 10 years of corporate experience.  

Don't get me wrong -- the transition was a bit more difficult than I thought. I think the mindset is definitely different when it comes to accomplishing a task or implementing processes, but I believe that the for-profit workers could add a new dimension to the nonprofit area that would help the industry achieve its program and development goals through the development of creative ideas and strategies.

So, I too wonder what the big deal is in hiring for-profit employees.

[Lisa S.]

All the responses have hit on some interesting roads that can be traveled with this question. I think it all comes down to money. Corporations look at things from a bottom line of the balance sheet and many times people are judged on how much their salary is. Nonprofit organizations have a limited amount of money for salaries -- at least the small and medium ones. Where I work, we all make 30 to 50 percent  less then the nonprofit standard amount for our jobs and no one has had a raise in three years. We stay because we like who we work with and the cause we have chosen.  

We are a large nonprofit group but have no IT person. We can't afford it. I'm the accidental techie by default.   Everyone here would love to have more staff and are envious of the organizations our size and even smaller that have a staff with actual departments.  

I strongly believe that many people working in the nonprofit field have mastered doing the job of three or more people with one person. For-profit organizations are very much focused on one task or area and staying within the box.  This doesn't mean all profit or nonprofit workplaces are the same.  I worked for one nonprofit group that tried to run things "like a corporation," and everyone was miserable. There was no room for creativity, learning from others or originality.

[JB]

Looks like a lot of activity to this question..so, I might as well chime in!

I guess I have been very fortunate because I have been in the nonprofit sector for 25 years and have experienced just the opposite. If you work in a large and well-established nonprofit organization that is respected and successful, then you have a clear advantage over a for-profit individual.

In my nonprofit experience, I have worked mostly with the persons or sources of wealth and bring their savvy to one place: our non profit organization.  If you really want to make a difference in a nonprofit environment, choose fund raising or a development role and your IT skills are directly relevant. But, if you want to sit behind a computer all day and not interact with people, then stay in the for-profit sector and keep you surroundings limited.

I have worked as a staff partner with mostly presidents or senior vice presidents or vice presidents of major corporations in two different countries, as well as interacted face to face with individuals capable of giving contributions of $5-million or more, not to mention their financial planners. The nonprofit industry is a business of human capital and how you are able to motivate these resources in seeing the relevance to what they do directly to benefit what you do. Your products are human-driven and intangible, but your skill is still sound business sense.  

It really peeves me when business or for-profit sources come to nonprofit groupss and leave their brains behind. Working for a nonprofit organization is one of the most rewarding opportunities one can aspire to, that is after you have learned a few things locked in a box. Your skills are multi faceted You learn to bring competitors together in a room (sometimes for the first time) to collaborate on something greater than the bottom line. What a rewarding experience.  You are a cultivator, a motivator, a forecaster, a writer, a public speaker, etc.,  all in one. In other words, the nonprofit sector creates a much more well-rounded individual.

And as for salary, I have done really well and remain competitive. Most persons, even recruiters, do not understand the nonprofit sector and, thus, carry an attitude that a nonprofit professional is less of a professional, when in essence they are really one of the most comprehensive professionals money could buy.

It's like oil and water. The for-profit companies don't get it, but when they do, they then understand the rewards, and I'm not just talking about the stirring of their hearts, but a platform for networking, testing, and personal growth.

I can give you examples of how presidents of major banks finally got the value of a nonprofit organization and created a major business strategy for the nonprofit group  that he later applied to his business and made mega bucks!  I can tell you tales of how a CEO had absolutely no public speaking skills, but by the time he cultivated them through training by a nonprofit group, he was one of the most sought after speakers in a major city. He had learned how to be compassionate and believe in what he was doing, and the rewards came.

Jealous?  Afraid?  Try ignorance and single minded and just don't get it. You can build a home out of brick and mortar (that's the bottom line), but if there is no running water nearby then its really useless for its intended worth.  Thus, if business or for-profit workers really understood the nonprofit sector, then they'd realize that it's the running water that sets one value over another. If a society is not lucrative, then it's worthless and nobody makes money. So, if you want to consider a career in the nonprofit sector, then open you mind and see the big picture. Then you're ready!

[Can relate]

I relate to the original post -- which sounds to me like a lot of frustration on the part of a former corporate professional who's now seeking employment in the non-profit field. I agree that it seems baffling for those of us who have great credentials from the private sector, and cannot penetrate the nonprofit barrier, despite our good intentions. But, having spoken to numerous nonprofit employers over the past year, I don't think it's jealousy, but rather more a reluctance to believe that someone (like me) can come out of the corporate environment and have earnest intentions about doing work that makes a difference.

If more nonprofit employers expanded their thinking, they might benefit from the outstanding professionals who want to work for them, despite their sordid for-profit backgrounds!

[Michael]

I appreciate all that JB had to say on this subject. I happen to be someone who has gone back and forth between for-profit and nonprofit work over the course of my career, and I can appreciate both the organizational and cultural differences between the two sectors, as well as the synergies and benefits that can flow from effective "cross-pollination."  

Yes, it's possible to make the transition. No, it's not easy, and it's not for everyone. And no, the difficulties do not arise from jealousy or fear.

Here in the San Francisco Bay Area where I live and work, we faced an interesting phenomenon right after the high-tech bust. Virtually overnight, thousands of bright, young, high-credentialed individuals from the private sector suddenly found themselves unemployed, and many of them began to knock on the doors of nonprofit groups. When interviewing some of these candidates, it was clear that some of them were passionate, hard-working, creative and open-minded people whose true inclination really was nonprofit work.  Those are the ones who have stayed in the nonprofit sector and have thrived.

Then there were the candidates whose interest in nonprofit work was clearly "situational."  Had they not been laid off from Yahoo or Oracle or Schwab, they would never have considered applying for a job with a nonprofit employer.  They were simply seeking something to "tide them over" during a tough economy.  Once the economy picked up, their intention was to return to for-profit work. It wasn't that they were insincere. Many of them truly believed in the cause and wanted to apply their talents in a constructive way to help the world. But they were clearly not prepared to stay in it for the long haul. Their career expectations were ultimately quite different from their nonprofit counterparts.

Finally there are the for-profit candidates who think that by offering their incredible business acumen, they will singlehandedly rescue a nonprofit from financial ruin. I can smell the condescension and arrogance a mile away, and believe me, I steer clear of it! This is clearly the wrong attitude to bring to the nonprofit world. Surprisingly enough, we nonprofit professionals actually know a thing or two about finance, business development, and strategic planning. We also know why many ideas that work well in the private sector don't make sense for nonprofit organizations.  After all, if a soup kitchen wanted to "run like a business," it wouldn't be a soup kitchen; it would be a restaurant!  

Nonprofit executives aren't stupid.  We know that employees in the for-profit world can and do offer invaluable experience and skills that can help our organizations.  Many of us come from for-profit backgrounds ourselves. We're not opposed to hiring the right candidates from the private sector. But we're not going to hire someone, no matter how smart or credentialed they may be, who is not mentally and emotionally prepared for the long-term challenges of a nonprofit career. And we're certainly not going to hire people who think they know how to do our jobs better than we do!

I think these are the issues that people in the private sector need to consider carefully before applying for nonprofit jobs.

[Victoria]

Michael, I think you hit the nail on the head! Puzzled should take another look at his/her original question. The tone of it may come across in the for-profit world as confident and can-do, but to my nonprofit ears (eyes), it comes across as arrogant. There seems to be an implicit assumption that, because he/she comes from the for-profit world, his/her skills are automatically better than those of his competitors who have made their careers in the nonprofit world.  Not so!

In addition, people skills and the ability to contribute to a positive, even nurturing work environment are important in most nonprofit groups. If Puzzled approached the job search with an attitude of wanting to put his/her great skills to use in the cause of the nonprofit organization and communicated an awareness of and willingness to learn a new kind of working culture, things might go better.

[latifah123]

Looks like a lot of activity to this question

[registry]

No I don't think that is the problem at all. I am a recruiter and I do not like hiring advanced-level people from for-profit companies because nonprofit organizations are a different world. The environment is very different. The people are very different. The salary is very different.

I agree with Julie , that are total different thing.