Nonprofit Careers: How Does the Financial Downturn Affect Your Job Prospects?

Tuesday, November 18, at 12 noon, U.S. Eastern time

Ira Madin is vice president of Professionals for Nonprofits, a recruiting firm for nonprofit groups in New York.

Brian Vogel is a senior principal with Quatt Associates, a strategic-planning and compensation consulting company in Washington. He is an expert in the design of compensation and retirement plans for nonprofit executives.

A transcript of the chat follows.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Hello and welcome to today's live discussion. We'll be focusing today on the impact of of the economy on the nonprofit job market. The market, to say the least, is tight these days. Many groups have scaled back their payrolls and are retrenching in the face of declining donations. And the nonprofit world is also seeing an influx of displaced private sector employees who are looking to switch careers. What will this mean for the job market moving forward? What can you do to navigate your career in these conditions? And what can you expect in terms of compensation in 2009? Our experts are here to take your questions on these topics -- and many more -- during the next hour.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    To ask a question, please click on the "ask a question" link on this page and ask away. We'll get started momentarily.

Question from Alex, IT Manager:
    My company is transferring me, and my wife currently works as a grants manager at a non-profit. What are her prospects for finding part-time grants work when we move in the next few months?

Ira Madin:
    Excellent, she should position herself as a contracted employee or consultant. She can then work for a few nonprofits, do the research on the grant, create the template by interviewing the managers at the nonprofit and prospect the funders. She can share with each client her ability to create the grant without being a full time employee needing benefits and yearly salary. Nonprofits like this relationship.

Question from Pamela, Unemployed:
    My experience here, in the Philadelphia region, is that development jobs have dried up - and the ones that are out there pay 1995 wages. I'm even seeing development director jobs posted as administrative assistant positions - with comparable salaries. What are the best options for older development professionals?

Brian Vogel:
    I can't speak to particular markets--there may well be areas where development salaries have stagnated. Generally, though, over the last four or five years, development positions have shown, in my experience, some of the highest demand and fastest salary growth (much like finance, and in some cases government relations and public policy jobs, or IT jobs in the late 90s). Senior positions have moved fastest, but at least among my non profit clients, development salaries have been up pretty much across the Board. I do have to say, however, that we work mostly in the NY, DC, and to some extent the West Coast markets

Question from Craig, University of Illinois at Springfield :
    How valuable is a Master's Degree in fields such as Public Administration and Nonprofit Management in this economy and is networking still the most valuable thing current undergraduate students (or anyone) can be doing right now to benefit their careers?

Ira Madin:
    In a management position, nonprofits are requiring the Masters Degree. Networking works well in any economy along with professional organizations and conferences.

Question from Andree Weger, npo volunteer,sector switcher:
    Hello, I have been a successful saleswoman in the Estate Planning field for 14 years.I have also served on the Executive Committees of the local chapters of the NAACP, ACLU,NCNW and my neighborhood historical district.

I have created new very successful fundraisers and chaired committees. What I want to do is put all this to use in transferring my skills to a position in the non profit sector, preferably in development/fund raising.

Brian Vogel:
    As I said in my last post my experience has been that demand for development positions has been robust (although as with everything else I'd expect a slowdown now).

As to transferring your skills, I'd suggest working through the organizations you have already been involved with--network with other members of the Executive Committees, and with staff, and look for possible opportunities. The skills involved in doing fund raisers should be quite transferable to development work

Question from Stephen Bauer, American Humanics / Nonprofit Workforce Coalition:
    How can nonprofits navigate the inter-generational as well as the difference in organizational culture (corporate vs nonprofit) that this downturn will cause in the labor market?

Ira Madin:
    Regardless of the economy, nonprofits will continue to search for qualified staff with the level of experience required. Transitional staff, for profit to the nonprofit, can bring experience that many nonprofits are looking for, running themselves as a business, but it is the actual experience at a similar organization that is most welcomed for the ideal candidate.

Question from Lee Hall, small nonprofit:
    Over the next year, do you see the nonprofit job market becoming much more competitive?

Which areas, jobs (development, management, etc.) and fields (education, health, etc.), do you believe will offer more job opportunities?

Ira Madin:
    I believe that development will continue to be the fastest growing field in the nonprofit as the raising funds will be of paramount concern to the nonprofits in '09. Good fund raisers with a successful track record of success should have no issue with finding employment. While the arena will become more competitive since the agencies might be hiring fewer people, the skilled candidates will still be in demand. Health and human services will have the most opportunities

Question from Ann, higher ed foundation :
    How comprehensive should a résumé be when seeking new opportunities? What are some important catch-phrases to include? What is the best way to frame a cover letter?

Ira Madin:
    Resumes should include length of service, main responsibilities and challenges succeeded in. You do not want to give too much information as the client will then have no reason to meet you.

Be accurate, do not lie or exaggerate. Bullet format works the best and be aware of length, most recent assignment should be longest and shorter as you progress.

Cover letters should be brief, explain in one sentence why you are right for the position, noting a particular skill, situation or experiences.

Question from Ina Hoffman, small nonprofit:
    You mentioned a Master's Degree. What do you think about the Certificate Programs?

Ira Madin:
    Firstly, the BA is a must..in a management position the Masters is as well. Depending on the sector and the level of position, some nonprofits might accept the certificate. More importantly it will be the experience as well as demonstrated passion for the mission

Question from Peter Panepento, moderator:
    Hi Brian. How has compensation for executive-level nonprofit positions trended during past economic downturns? Do salary increases taper off -- or continue at normal rates of growth?

Brian Vogel:
    In the past they've slowed down some but not a lot, but I'm not sure how relevant that experience is, since this downturn shows every sign of being far worse than we've seen in my professional life time. My expectation, and it's pretty much a guess based on what I have heard from a few of my clients, is that the salary increases for executive level positions will slow down quite a bit.

Again, this is based on what I hear anecdotally--the data (from the big firms, and from my firm's survey of our clients) still show 4% or so increases in the budget. But I am getting more and more calls from people saying that they are considering increases half that, or even giving no increases at all

Question from Jessie, Bonner Program at Centre College:
    I'm a 2008 graduate now working in at a small college in one of their volunteer programs. I know I will be moving on this coming May and I know I want to stay in the non-profit sector. I'm concerned for my prospects of being employed in this market and only having one year of true workplace experience. I've been wrestling with going back now to get my Masters in Business or Nonprofit Management or to continue my career for another year or two to gain more experience -- any thoughts on what the best plan of action should be?

Ira Madin:
    It will continue to be work experience that will make you a viable candidate. You want to get 2+ years on your resume in the specialty of the nonprofit even as a junior candidate. You can always go for your Masters part time in the evening.

Question from Rob Sartin, job seeker:
    What special concerns are there for people returning to the work force from a break in employment?

Ira Madin:
    You must be able to discuss the break in your career...illness, back to school, relocation, personal family issues. Nonprofits recognize that life situations occur but they want to know why. Have your references be prepared to talk about your skills and successes in clear demonstrated form. Do not lie about dates, this can be checked. Just be prepared to justify the break in employ, be forward and open about it.

Question from Peter Panepento, moderator:
    With the job market tightening, are nonprofit organizations able to scale back their compensation offers to new hires?

Brian Vogel:
    The short and perhaps not over helpful answer is "it depends on the position". My expectation is that offers for entry level and other lower level positions will be scaled back--a lot more competition among applicants in a very bad market.

For high level positions, where organizations are looking for a particular person or skill set--in those cases offers may not differ that much from what we have seen in the pre-crash recent past.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    We're halfway through today's discussion and our guests have plenty of time to take your questions. Please feel free to post your query by clicking on the "ask a question" link on this page.

Brian Vogel:
    Let me clarify a bit, since my last two answers may seem at odds with each other: I expect a general and across the board slowing because budgets will be tight. Nevertheless, there will always some positions where organizations will pay significantly (I've seen a couple of recent CEO hires that still suggest a competitive marketplace)

Question from Brett, nonprofit consultant:
    Do you know of a good organization that I can network with in order to find a good position within the sector?

Ira Madin:
    Research agencies that specialize in the nonprofit and search websites that deal only in nonprofit jobs. First decide on the sector of the nonprofit you want to work in and go from there.

Good sites...idealist.org, guidestar.com and of course our website http://www.nonprofitstaffing.com which has a lot of resources for the candidate.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    And please don't forget our site. We have a healthy array of resources and news about nonprofit careers, as well as job postings. http://philanthropy.com/jobs/

Question from Hsien Hong Lin, Taiwanese, Kent State University:
    As an international graduate from a U.S. university, is there any chance to be a volunteer at nonprofit organizations in order to absorb American style nonprofit systems to apply in his country, especially in such a bad economic environment?

Ira Madin:
    Absolutely, nonprofits are always looking for dedicated volunteers to learn about their services and share their background and experiences. Chose a sector of the nonprofit that you are most passionate about and tell the nonprofit why.

Question from Jan, director of special events:
    I am finding that many nonprofits are not hiring full time staff for events but rather consultants to come in and do an event. How do I position myself as a consultant and where is the best place to find out what I should be charging?

Brian Vogel:
    This is a hard question, and I am not sure I have a good answer.

It certainly makes sense, especially in hard times, that organizations want to use part time consultants instead of full time consultant (as a consultant myself I am keenly aware that one of our advantages is that we can be "laid off" with no regrets!).

As to setting yourself up and finding out the appropriate rates--there's no way to do this except by simply asking people. There's not good data out there on what consultants charge, especially since it's going to be specific to your specialty area and your market/city. Since you know non profits are doing this, I'd just talk to them about how they decide to hire, and what the going rates might be.

Question from Peter Panepento, moderator:
    We've been hearing a lot of speculation that the nonprofit sector is going to be flooded with folks from the corporate world who are looking to switch sectors and work in a charity setting. Is this just speculation, or is this already happening?

Brian Vogel:
    Speculation, I'd say. The skills are not so easily transferrable, and in any switch of that sort you generally have to go to a positon that doesn't just pay less since it's non profit, but also likely to be more junior since the new folks won't have the right skills and experience. I don't see a lot of people in fact doing that. The only possible exception would be people with financial and other administrative skills who might be able more easily to transfer for profit experience to the non profit market.

Question from C.J. Menard, Boston University:
    I'm wondering if any of you sees an upside to this...a necessary market correction, if you will? For the past few years, we've increasingly been discussing the personnel crisis in the development world. While I'm all for earning as much as one can, we've all been plagued by the situation of staff who have been in a position for a year or sometimes less demanding raises or promotions and saying (at least as they can in a town as rife with non-profits as Boston) that they can go across the street and get 20% more. Too many people have moved up too fast by job-hopping which is not only detrimental to relationships with prospects, but also provides a level of mid and upper level managers who have not mastered the basics or really achieved successes.

Brian Vogel:
    An acute observation I'd say. I do expect that the development market will calm down, just as there will be a general cooling. I've seen a lot of the job-hopping that you cite and have always felt that it sometimes resulted not just in people who didn't have the necessary skills or experience but also meant people were doing development without the necessary commitment to their organization. I've wondered how they could raise money without really knowing and caring deeply about who they were raising it for.

Question from Cal Halvorsen, Civic Ventures:
    Many older workers who were planning on retiring may not be able to do so due to the economic situation. However, many of these workers may choose to enter into encore careers and switch from the for-profit to nonprofit sector. What advice do you have for them in terms of finding nonprofit jobs that are a good fit and describing their experiences/expertise to nonprofit employers who may be uncomfortable with sector-switchers or feel that they wouldn't fit in a nonprofit environment?

Ira Madin:
    The best transition for a for-profit professional looking to get into the nonprofit is as a consultant or contracted employee. Nonprofits are eager to hear the business experience they bring with them. The assignments might be short or long term and might lead to a direct hire position.

As well, with baby boomers stepping down from executive positions, the nonprofits are looking to interim directors, which is a good opportunity for the transition.

Question from Peter Panepento, moderator:
    Ira, you mentioned areas that are expected to be the strongest in the coming months. What types of positions are most likely going to be the hardest to find for job seekers?

Ira Madin:
    IT with nonprofit experience is always a challenge, management positions with mixed requirements (Director of Finance with HR and IT management experience) or another combination... as well External Affairs,(w/ the combination of fundraising along w/ marketing and branding in the nonprofit)

Question from Jill, Associate Attorney looking to move to non profit:
    What is the best way to be considered for a position in the non=profit sector. I have trust and estate planning experience, but I also have corporate law, insurance defense, and school law background. I am trying to focus on non-profits with an education focus or medical (my firm also represents several hospitals). Any suggestions?

Brian Vogel:
    Sounds to me like you are--in general--doing the right thing. Specifically I'd have the same advice I'd give any job seeker: you've got to identify organizations looking for more or less your skill set. If your firm has relationships with hospitals, go talk to them. Do "informational interviews" just as they recommend in all the job search books. Identify organizations that may need your particular skills (we do a lot of work with public broadcasting for example, and they are always looking for communications and intellectual property lawers; you need to look for non profits that seek your skill set). Educationally oriented non profits might school law skills, for example.

Question from Michael Fields:
    Many professionals who have been in the non-profit sector tend to move from position to position more frequently than job seekers from the private sector. How does this look on your resume to a potential non-profit employer.

Ira Madin:
    Absolutely correct, building your career in the nonprofit is quite different than other sectors. You should invest 2-3 years at each organization so you can promote yourself to the senior positions. You do not want to be a "jumper" staying only 1 year and then moving on. You must dedicate time at each position to be sure that you have accomplished your tasks.

References are an excellent way to discuss your successes and why you moved on, more responsibility, achieved all that needed to be done, building your career

Question from Mike, small school:
    I know one should not talk about shortcomings of present employer to potential employers. However, I've heard that one has an obligation, once has left a nonprofit, to point out problems with the previous employer to volunteer board members and other volunteers of the previous employer. Comments?

Brian Vogel:
    I would be very cautious as a former employee myself approaching the board with comments. It should, however, be the board's obligation to understand what concerns people might have, and they should ensure that staffers are doing honest exit interviews--and board members might want to talk to staff themselves. But I don't think I'd recommend you take the lead on this.

Question from Peter Panepento, moderator:
    We've been hearing some folks in the nonprofit world talking about how they expect the Obama administration to import a significant number of folks with nonprofit experience to work in the White House. Are you expecting such a transfer of talent and, if so, will that open up opportunities for those seeking jobs?

Brian Vogel:
    The total number of jobs that the Admninistration will fill is so small that it can't possibly make a significant difference to the overall market. Of course, if you're angling for a job at a Democratically-oriented think tank, something might open up--but other than very particular exceptions of that sort, I just don't see a major impact.

Question from Peter Panepento, moderator:
    Do you see the tighter market creating more logjams for emerging leaders? How can those in Generation X and the millennial generation stand out and climb the ladder?

Ira Madin:
    Good question, Peter. The market will certainly get tighter for that generation but the nonprofit is still a sector that appreciates skill and a real passion for the nonprofits. Candidates must build their career carefully, continue their education and keep their skills fine tuned. It is all about the fit when nonprofits hire so if the makeup of the agency is one for young, smart and energetic staff, it creates an edge for the Generation X professional.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Our time is up. Thanks to everyone who took the time to join us today and a special thanks to Brian Vogel and Ira Madin for taking your questions.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    We'll be back next Tuesday at noon Eastern time to talk about how nonprofit groups can effectively use Twitter and other social-media tools to advance their missions. We hope to see you then. In the meantime, I invite you to check out http://philanthropy.com/live for full transcripts of all of our previous live discussions. Thanks again.