Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Hello and welcome to today's live discussion. Today, we're talking about the nonprofit job market in the current economic climate. Our discussion will focus on both job seekers and those who are hiring. Job seekers are invited to ask questions about how they can improve their chances of getting noticed. Those who are hiring are welcome to ask questions about how to find the best candidates.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Our guest experts today include Kara Leppert, a partner with the executive-search firm SBR in Nashville, Tenn., and Larry H. Slesinger, founder of Slesinger Management Services, an executive-search consulting company in Washington.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Before we get started, I wanted to issue a couple of quick reminders. First, you are invited at any time during the discussion to ask questions are post comments on what you are reading. To do that, simply click on the "ask a question" link on this page and type in your question or comment. Second, we will be offering a full transcript of this event after it is complete at http://philanthropy.com/live. You are welcome to refer to the transcript in the future -- and to pass it along to others who might find it interesting.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Without further ado, let's get started.

Question from Paulette Pierre, The Field Foundation:
    I am a mid-career switcher, moving from the for-profit sector to the non-profit after many years. I am currently doing a paid internship as a program officer at a foundation. I am also pursuing my MA to make myself more marketable. I love the work but jobs are limited. I would like to stay in this field but how do I make myself more attractive to a potential non-profit employer when, undoubtedly, the word "intern" on my resume is probably a limiting factor?

Kara Leppert:
    Paulette-- I was just speaking with a candidate yesterday that spent 20+ years teaching and was also in music promotion. Her husband works for a national nonprofit orgnaization and when an opening at a local nonprofit opened up for a Director of Development, she applied, even though she had no proven development experience. After a grueling series of interviews, she was hired and she's successfully been in the job the last two years. All I have to say is this-- whom ever decides to hire you will be taking a leap of faith. Having someone make inroads for you so that you're being seen as a trusted, known entity will help. And it's a numbers game out there right now, so keep plugging away and best of luck on your search!

Question from andra bostian ferguson, development consultant:
    what does this mean? "Opening at least 20 new proposals at the $25,000 and above level per year"? I have never heard the term "opening".

What kind of nonprofits are most likely hiring and where?

What do universites look for in terms of expereince if you have NOT had higher ed. experience. What do they want to know about you. How do you get in that door? Thank you

Kara Leppert:
    Andra- Unfortunately, I haven't heard the term "opening" either. My best guess would be that the meaning pertains to new propsects. The kinds of nonprofits are hiring are looking to fill mission-critial positions that are vacant due to attrition. Of the searches I'm working on right now, all are in development. With the pending economic stimulus package, I anticipate that the expansion of the "green economy" will have a tremendous impact on the creation of new jobs in the marketplace. With regard to higher ed, I can't really help you there as the clients I work with are mainly mission-driven nonprofits. Perhaps Larry could be of help there?

Question from Alma Hadzidedic, Recruiting Advisor, Mercy Corps:
    As a Recruiting Advisor for Mercy Corps in Portland, OR, I have been looking for a Senior Development Director to be based in our new Action Center located in New York. The advertisement has been posted in the Philanthropy Chronicle for a couple of months, but it has not generated any candidates. I would like to know what publications/on-line sources you would recommend as a promising advertizing venue for this position in New York.

Thank you in advance for your reply.

Alma Hadzidedic Recruitment Advisor 503-542-0125 Mercy Corps

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Try: www.ExecSearches.com
www.Idealist.org
The website for the Assoc of Fundraising Professionals -- NY chapter www.Interaction.org -- see the job bank

Finally, go to www.SlesingerManagement.com and see article #1 in the For Job Seekers page for more websites

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    And please don't forget that the Chronicle offers a pretty healthy listing of open jobs. You can find it at http://philanthropy.com/jobs.

Question from Ann Marie Lonsdale, student:
    Will candidates with post-graduate degrees have a better chance with not for profit organizations? Or is experience and a long resume the real key?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    So much depends on the job and the competition.

Usually, relevant job experience weighs more than specific degrees.

Question from Karen, nonprofit:
    I am looking at a huge salary cut for a pending position. What negotiation strategies do you advise to try to recoup lost salary, particularly in light of a relocation as well (or 2 hour commute)?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Try exploring:
-- Can some of the compensation be performance based so that great work leads to more than the base salary?
-- Can you work at home one day a week to cut commuting expenses. The time you save should also boost productivity, depending on the nature of the job
-- Are there any benefits that you can give up in lieu of a higher salary, e.g. can you get health insurance via another family member?

Question from Melanie, small research-focused non-profit:
    What would you recommend are some effective ways to obtain information (from/about applicants) regarding some of the intangible qualities that contribute to or get in the way of success (humor, tolerance for stress, ambition vs. cut-throat competitiveness, confidence vs. arrogance, independence vs. inability to take direction, creativity vs. lack of focus, etc.) beyond the issues of qualifications or previous experience highlighted in a resume/CV? Thanks.

Kara Leppert:
    Melanie-- The best suggestion I have here are brushing up on behavioral interview questions. The way someone answers these questions will tell you volumes. Just Googling "behavorial interview questions" will give you tons of ideas. The other way to get at these intangibles is through thorough reference checking. Good luck!

Question from Amy, small college in midwest:
    I am a finalist for a Vice President of Development position at a small private college. The final interview includes a session with several members of the Board of Directors....What should I expect in the way of interview questions from their perspective? What would be questions that I should consider asking them?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    They should ask you:
-- your thoughts on the role of the board in FR
-- your accomplishments in similar jobs
-- how the school can raise $ in this economic climate
You should ask them:
-- what are key stratetic issues facing the school that have FR implications?
-- how engaged is or can the board get in FR?
-- What are the three key challenges facing the next Dir of Dev.

Question from Joe, nonprofit:
    It is often said that the first impression is so important in an interview....what are recommendations for making that first impression impressive? Also, what are some tips for ending the interview on a memorable note?

Kara Leppert:
    You're right, Joe. First impressions are important, just as how you close out the interview is equally as important.

First impressions--
Be professional. Wear a suit to a first interview even if the organizational culture is business casual or casual. Be prepared. Bring your resume and a list of priority questions you'd like answers to. Interest and intellect is commonly associated wtih the questions a candidate asks.
Make good eye contact.

Last impressions--
Seperate yourself from every other person they're speaking to! Do not just shake thier hand, thank them for the meeting and walk out. Reiterate your interest and ask them directly if they can see you being successful in the role or if they have any concerns about your candidacy. This will allow you the opportunity to address any objections before walking out the door.

Hope this helps!

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Hi Joe. Kara has messaged me to say that she would like to pass along an article to you on this topic offline. If you're interested in finding out more, e-mail me at peter.panepento@philanthropy.com

Question from Kate Lee, Corphilis Consulting:
    As we see & hear of NPOs trying to consolidate "backoffice" operations, how does a job seeker promote their candidacy when there may be multiple stakeholders making the hiring decision?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    You need to ask the first person who interviews you who else will be involved in the process, and express your willingness to meet with any and all of them. Sometimes this requires a few visits to their office, and flexibility on your part.

Question from DC:
    I'm curious as to why SBR doesn't seem to list its current searches on its Web site. Most executive-search firms promote their lists of active searches.

Kara Leppert:
    DC, Good question! I'm a part of a firm with 45 recruiters that work in five offices around the globe. Our site is maintained through one administrator that has other duties other than the website, so it's tough for her to keep up. We don't see this as a terrible problem as most, if not all, of our candidates are found through direct cold call recruiting.

Question from Scott from Seattle:
    I'm transitioning into a career in development and have an opportunity for a paid internship that hopefully will evolve into a full-time position with the organization. While I'm interning, any advice on how I should structure my hourly wage scale? Although I don't have any paid development experience, I have many, many years of other professional experience that provides many skills translatable to development. Can I expect to not be paid much more than minimum wage?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    If they have a history of paying interns for FR work, you probably need to fit into that pay range. If they don't, do some research to see what comparable jobs at other nonprofits in Seattle are paying, and convert that annual pay into an hourly amount.

After 60 days, ask them to evaluate your work, and if they're positive, ask if you can be promoted to a long-term position.

Question from Sarah, small nonprofit:
    Please advise on best responses to the following Interview Questions:
1.What is your opinion of starting a campaign in next 24 months with the current national economic situation?
2.What are the best fundraising strategies for an annual giving AND major gift plan for the remaining fiscal year and into next year with the economic depression?
3.What are expectations for fundraising assistance for faculty and board of trustees during current times?
4.Our endowment has lost millions, how do we recoup (hopefully in 5 years)? How do you know when to change investment managers?

Kara Leppert:
    Sarah-- Because I'm a recruiter and not a development professional, I can't answer these questions for you, but for a general suggestion, I would say that you want to be as quantifiable as possible when in interviews. The best predictor of the future is the past, so know your numbers, accomplishments and performance highlights extremely well. Ask yourself in each job that I've had, what have I done to MAKE MONEY, SAVE MONEY, or where have I implemented or changed a PROCESS THAT IMPACTED THE BOTTOM-LINE? Especially in these tough economic times, being able to show your value to an organization based on past performance is key. The good news is that development professionals can do this better than most!

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    As we approach the midway point in today's discussion, I'd like to offer a reminder that participants are encouraged to ask questions at any time. To submit your query, simply click on the "ask a question" link on this page and fire away.

Comment from Diane, executive search:
    Please let Amy (@ small college who is a finalist candidate and will be meeting with Board members) know that I am happy to speak with her and that best advice is to do research - learn bios of Board members and ask questions that demonstrate you have taken time to do so. Share your experience - successes and frustrations -with your Board members.

Comment from Judy-Anne Goldman, www.CFCAusa.org:
    Hi. This is a great discussion! Re: looking for candidates. I wanted to add a suggestion about all of the journalists who are being laid off. It seems like a great opportunity for NPO communication departments to take advantage of great story-telling skills and messaging pros. It's also a great way for journalists to continue their mission to give voice to those who have none.

Question from Scott Fraser from Seattle:
    After many years of volunteering for nonprofits, I've decided to transition from a legal editor job into a paid development position. I know my timing is bad with the economy's situation. Any advice on how to compete in this market flooded with development people with paid experience?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Play to your strengths:
-- good writer
-- what are two other valuable attributes you offer them?

How you write your cover letter, and how you perform in an interview will let them know about your persuasive skills, always key in FR.

Question from Teresa, large intl affairs non-profit:
    Are non-profits still hiring for some positions, despite the current economic situation?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Yes, yes, yes. See the jobs listed at the Chronicle's website, www.Idealist.org, www.execsearches.com, etc.

Question from robert bennett, past foundation program officer:
    What are the best web-sites to post your resume in a job-search?

Kara Leppert:
    Robert-- unfortunately, we don't look for talent on job boards, but the best places I would suggest are AFP and ASAE for the nonprofit sector.

Question from Cathy, small nonprofit:
    Any advice on how to conduct a blind search? Don't want to lose the current person until I have a replacement lined up.

Larry H. Slesinger:
    People do that all the time; you just need to be discrete as you inform people you're ready for something else. Potential employers typically understand this, and will keep your interest confidential.

But don't respond to ads that don't identify the employer. It could be from where you work now!

My book (see www.SlesingerManagement.com) has tips on how to look for a job at a nonprofit.

Question from Sarah, nonprofit:
    What are best responses to interview questions like: when would you start a campaign in this economic climate? what are the best fund raising strategies in the current economic climate?

Kara Leppert:
    Sarah-- I feel like I'm not helping you out much here. Again, because I'm not a development professional, I can't tell you the best answers to these questions. Dialoguing with other professionals at your AFP chapter to exchange ideas here would be my best suggestion.

Question from Jennifer, IRC:
    I'm currently working under a contract that ends this summer. When is an appropriate time to start applying for new jobs? How likely is it that a nonprofit will hold a position for a few weeks if I'm the best fit?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Start 3-4 months before the contract ends. The higher the level, the longer a search can take.

If you're MUCH better than the next best candidate, then they should be patient, and understand the importance of an orderly transition from your current work.

But maybe your employer can release you early from the contract if they agree the new job is important for your career, etc., so don't be afraid to ask them if necessary. Just don't break the contract unilaterally. That will haunt you in the future.

Comment from Diane, executive search:
    For Cathy re: Blind search - Hate to be so self-serving, but a search firm is an effective partner in a blind search. They can act on your behalf and preserve your anonymity.

Question from Joe, nonprofit:
    For the job seeker:
1. What are tips on making an impressive FIRST impression during the interview (I will be going for a second interview, but meeting many other staff for the first time.)
2. What would you suggest for closing the interview to leave a memorable impression?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Show that you've done appropriate research on the org and the position. Come with three questions for them, e.g. what are key challenges facing the org. over the next year? How will the org decide if the person in this job has done a good job after one year on the job? Show enthusiasm and interest, without looking over-caffeinated.

Chapter 9 of my book elaborates on this. See www.SlesingerManagement.com for a link to the book.

When the interview is ready to end, reiterate your interest, but be brief. These people have other things to do that day.

Question from John Doe, nonprofit:
    I have an interview scheduled for an administrative development position (have 12 years of experience). I will be interviewing with many from the board of directors....what questions should I expect?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Why do you want this job? Why do you think you can do it well? How would you want to work with the board? Tell us about past accomplishments that are relevant?

And bring a few questions to ask them. Make it a conversation, not an interrogation.

Question from Scott from Seattle:
    What does the panel think about trying to use search firms to find development jobs, particularly for those who are looking to make a career switch into development?

Kara Leppert:
    Scott-- Most true search firms have a model of working on searches on behalf of paying clients, looking for specific talent to fill those roles. It's rare that there's a side to the business where firms look to find homes for professionals, although they do exist. If you can find a nonprofit recruiter that knows the development world well and you have a remarkable skill set and transferable track record, you shouldn't have a problem finding someone to work with you.

Question from Maureen small nonprofit:
    I have less than 6 months (I am still doing it so my experience is growing) of experience with fundraising and event planning at a small nonprofit group. I have over 15 years of sales and business development experience in the for profit world. Would it be best for me to try to enter the nonprofit world through community outreach efforts or fundraising? Many of the jobs I am looking at for fundraising are requiring experience with Razors Edge or other software packages and several years of fundraising experience, which I do not have currently. Any advice about how to get my foot in the door in the nonprofit world would be very appreciated.

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Sales and bus devel exp are very relevant for FR jobs, and many nonprofits realize that, but not all. See if you can find a short course on Razors Edge so you at least have some knowledge of it. I don't know how long it takes to learn the fundamentals, but the fact you've learned some of it should impress some employers.

Question from Lisa, student:
    Someone mentioned the "green economy" as possibly stimulating fundraising jobs....do you mean in the conservation or environmental world?

Kara Leppert:
    Certainly! At least, that's what I and a lot of other folks are hoping for! I would suggest visiting the Apollo Alliance's website to get a sense of how things may be expanding in the future.

Question from Campbell, nonprofit:
    I have 18 years experience in development across several non-profits....I am thinking of starting a consulting business (as has already been said--many back office tasks may be outsourced)....what is your opinion regarding starting a fund raising consulting business in this economic climate.....how can I best begin to market my consulting business?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    So much depends on how much business you need to generate in the first 90, 180, etc. days since work will unlikely flow in steadily. How hard will it be to get the first 2-3 clients? Success with them should lead to more work, and then you have a real business. As orgs shrink staff, this might be a good time to take on some of the work they still need to do, without the long-term expense a staff member implies.

Question from James:
    Would you consider using a staffing agency to help identify the candidates with the most potential for success?

Kara Leppert:
    James-- when you say staffing, are you referring to executive search or temporary staffing agencies? Either way, yes, it pays to have a professional pre-screen for fit, skill set and propensity to do the job successfully. Outsourcing the work is an investment and with the right candidate in place, most clients I talk to feel the benefit seriously outwieghed the cost.

Question from Maria in Florida:
    I worked in Washington DC, was laid off and then moved to Florida. I volunteered and worked part-time until I landed a new job working for a newspaper. I was recently laid off and immediately volunteered again. I love volunteering because I love helping my community but I know ther is no money in that. How can I make my resume stand out w/key words that promote my love for community involvement so that I am able to land a job doing I love to do?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    On the resume, list all the volunteer gigs as if they were jobs (but in a section called "Volunteer and Community Service") and list your accomplishments, just like you should be doing for paid work.

Question from Sharon, university career services office:
    What are some areas of non-profit work where you anticipate an increase (or decrease) in opportunities? I see that development and "green" jobs were mentioned as growing areas. Any others? Also, what do you think would make a given candidate's resume and cover letter stand out in a way that increases the chance of an interview?

Kara Leppert:
    Sharon-- great question and although I don't consider myself an expert in anticipating where the expansion of jobs are going to be in the sector, I think we're going to see newly created jobs on a green-collar level and a leadership level that will go hand-in-hand with the outcome of Obama's stimulus package. We could see an effect in the labor world, environmental sector and education. Unfortunately, of all the organizations and people I talk to, the arts world seems to be suffering the most.

Regarding an eye catching resume and cover letter-- for a resume, QUANTIFY your accomplishments-- budgets you've overseen, money you've raised and from what sources, numbers of staff managed directly and indirectly. For the cover letter, try using bullet points to seperate out your value proposition to an organization, again using quantifiable information.

Question from Pat Campbell:
    I am interested in finding a position in research. Although I am quite familiar with all the duties necessary to perform the job, I have never formally worked in research. What's the best way to market myself for this type of position?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    If you have any writing samples that demonstrate research skills, make sure your resume describes them, and make them available to employers. If you don't have any samples, create one.

Question from Jin Ho, nonprofit consulting:
    What kind of things can a candidate with fairly brief post-college experience (around two years) do to distinguish himself or herself from the flooded job market? What would a recruiter look for in a candidate's resume that could make him or her more compelling than a competing, more experienced, candidate? Thanks for answering these questions!

Kara Leppert:
    Jin-- This is a tough question because it IS flooded out there! As an executive recruiter, I mostly deal with Director, VP and C-level professionals, but for someone just starting out in thier career, you need to quanitify your accomplishments to date, convincingly share why an organization's mission personally appeals to you and (if this is true) share that you want to have the opportunity to grow within an organization. Turnover among new development professionals is draining to most organizaitons, so the more you can show that you're looking to be somewhere for a long time, the better your chances.

Question from I.B., U.S. House of Representatives intern:
    I will receive my bachelor's degree in May, and am searching for entry-level positions with environmental non-profits. How can I best be competitive in applications and interviews, given that other applicants may have Masters degrees?

Kara Leppert:
    I.B.-- your question was so similar to Jim's that I would refer to my answer there. Let me know if you need me to follow-up with you on that one...

Question from susan, nonprofit:
    What about foundation positions? Those potential positions which determine where $$$ should be directed? Where can you search for these openings?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    It's not impossible, but it is very hard to get a job with a grantmaking foundation because it's a very small field with low turnover. And now with assets dropping 20 to 30 percent at some, many won't be doing much hiring.

Openings at foundations are listed at the Chronicle's website; also at websites of the Council on Foundations and the Foundation Center.

Question from Cathy, small non-profit:
    Follow up on my question about a blind search--I'm the employer, not the candidate! I can't list the name of my company or even what we do, because it would give away who we are. You advise candidates not to reply to searches where they don't know the employer...

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Sorry for my confusion on that.

I have no experience with blind searches. As a search consultant I won't take on a client that can't identify itself since the org's reputation is key to attracting talent.

But if you must, then describe the org and job with as much detail as possible, and ask people to respond to an email address that doesn't give your name away, e.g. greatjob@gmail.com.

I'm sure many job seekers are willing to respond to a blind ad, even if I think there's a risk involved.

Question from Kate, Higher Education:
    What should a career changer (into nonprofits and philanthropy) look for in educational or professional development programs? What are employers looking for, education-wise, in candidates?

Kara Leppert:
    Kate-- most of the time, track record and experience supercedes education, but to educate yourself and feel more confident in the sector, I would join AFP and get involved with a local chapter-- there's lots of training and educational opportunities to be had there. Some nonprofits value designations such as CAE (Certified Association Execitive) or ACFRE (Advanced Certified Fundraising Executive).

Question from Susan, Foundation in St. Paul:
    How should one answer questions such as: what is your salary right now? What are your salary expectation. I'm reluctant to share current salary for fear it would rule me out or affect the starting salary that might be offered.

Larry H. Slesinger:
    If an employer or search firm, asks, then I recommend you give them the info, but also ask what salary range they anticipate for this job. If you make a lot more, but want they job, then say you're willing to be flexible. If you make a lot less, then persuade them that you're ready for this higher-paying set of responsibilities.

Question from Kaitlyn, mid-size non-profit:
    We are a non-profit fundraising organization, whose primary revenue source is through events, i.e. walks, galas, telethons, etc. When advertising for Fundraising Event Professionals, we most often get resumes for party planners, rather than fundraisers. Any suggestions?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Maybe you need to be explicit by saying in the ads that FR experience is essential, and that experience with events is helpful but not sufficient.

Question from Kara, medium sized nonprofit:
    I've heard that there are opportunities for non profit managers/directors/fundraisers/EDs in the for profit sector right now. Do you believe this could be a good match? There are some really great people in nonprofit. Any suggestions on how to make that transition?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    I don't have experience with moving from nonprofits to for-profits, but I'm sure that people with strong skills acquired at nonprofits can be very useful at many for-profits.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Hi Kara. We held a full discussion on making the transition into a business career in 2008. I invite you to read the transcript here: http://philanthropy.com/live/2008/06/business_world/index.shtml

If you like what you see today, we also have full transcripts of all of our previous discussions available at http://philanthropy.com/live.

Comment from Scott from Seattle:
    A comment for Kate in higher education: I'd also look at your local university extension programs for courses in development. I'm taking one at University of Washington and it's well-respected; some Seattle area employers even mention the certificate from the program.

Question from Scott from Seattle:
    Is the panel aware of nonprofit recruiters in the Seattle area?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    I'm sorry; I do not know anybody who specializes there. See ads for recent searches and see if any search firm pops up frequently. I would add that Waldron and Company is a Seattle-based firm.

Question from JMR, job seeker:
    Hi there! I am one of two candidates for a position at a foundation. I've submitted writing test and samples, followed up with notes, had an excellent reference check, clearly stated my interest in the position, and am now being called back to meet with the exec. director, who presumably is making the final call. What should I do at this point to really seal the deal?

Larry H. Slesinger:
    Show up on time; listen to the ED's questions carefully and answer concisely, i.e. don't ramble; bring a few questions for the ED; show enthusiasm; reiterate your interest. Good luck.

Question from DJ Lee, Education NPO:
    I feel relatively new to the NPO world (within the last 5 years) and am looking for professional development opportunities. As of late, I understand the importance of policy in advocating for NPOs and am considering studying law. In your experience, or the experience of other executives, would this be a useful venture for a middle manager?

Kara Leppert:
    I'd estimate about half of the government affairs and policy folks I work with have a JD. The ones that don't interned on the Hill during or after college and know Washington very well. I would suggest speaking to a career counselor to wiegh the pros and cons of investing in a law degree.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Before we wrap up: I've set up a page in our Forums section for those who would like to continue discussing this timely topic. To continue the conversation, go to http://philanthropy.com/forums/index.php/topic,731.0.html and offer your thoughts, questions, or advice.

Peter Panepento (Moderator):
    Thank you to everyone who took the time to join us today. I hope you found the discussion useful. We'll post a full transcript of this discussion at http://philanthropy.com/live. I'd also like to invite you to join us a week from today at noon Eastern time when we discuss how nonprofit groups can effectively use tools like Twitter, Facebook, and Digg to spread their message and raise money. See you then.